Building Blocks Project - Roundtable#2 
World Design & the Educational Experience - September 25, 2002

World Design and Methods for Developing a Consistent / Cohesive Virtual Environment - The second informal roundtable presented in conjunction with the VLearn3d "Building Blocks for Virtual Worlds" took place on Wednesday September 25, 2002. The focus of this series was to discuss various methods of building in virtual worlds, by facilitating regular discussions with members of AWedu and other invited guests. This roundtable concentrated on world design issues in the following three areas: 1) Pre-Production: What sort of preparations and planning were done prior to actual building, as well as how users felt their world's design was influenced by Purpose and Audience. 2) Production: How designers dealt with creating the actual models, issues of scale, and their experience in developing the server support for the object set. As well as, how initial design plans changed during implementation and the actual building process? 3) Post-Production: How using supplementary objects (i.e. landscaping, signs), audio, and slide shows enhance your world's environment? Finally, how student/user reaction and your initial building experience altered people's initial thoughts on designing future virtual environments.

ChadR: good morning everybody

Rich: or evening :)

elijah: hehe

ChadR: or evening, or whatever time zone you are joining us from

"jitterbug": hehe sorry about that trident.

hypatia: yes, good morning, afternoon and evening :-)

ChadR: yes, it is great to see soo many of you join us again

tig: Hi everybody

Rich: Hi tig

tig: Good to see you

ChadR: i would first like to start off with some brief introductions from those of you joining us for the first time

ChadR: there is a link to last weeks round table log, as well as a link to our projects questionnaire page on the surrounding walls

ChadR: perhaps you can start us off tig . . .

ChadR: an introduction . . .

tig: about the world or about me?

ChadR: yourself, your worldm, your work . . .

tig: All right. I'm the caretaker of Edutopia

tig: I'm a teacher, from Italy

tig: and a researcher on the use of technology in education

tig: At the moment I'm reaserching on a) the use of games in education;

tig: b) the use of NLP in motivating students

tig: c) and other things 

tig: One thing that I'm about to start on AW is the creating of some virtual museums

ChadR: great, how bout you jitterbug?

tig: about Archeological sites

"jitterbug": hi everyone, im Jitterbug AKA: Alan Ferguson. I have been very interested in Using VR in education for a while now. Particularly regarding 3d geometry. Im the creator of SpringDance a software program, which can create RWX files that can be 

"jitterbug": imported into AW worlds.

"jitterbug": im the caretaker of numerous worlds, and a founding member of VRVillage.

ChadR: thankyou . . .and Rembrandt . . . ?

tig: time allowing !!

rembrandt: I am a lead designer at MArgaret Corbit's Cornell university team 

rembrandt: With Dan White, I designed many of the spaces, the concept art, the textures and web pages for our Jumping Genes world

ChadR: well this is a great crowd for our world building discussion then . . .do we have anyone else new in attendance?

Peter Pan: howdy, I also work for M Corbit, primarily as a 3D modeler. 

Peter Pan: like Dave, er, Rembrandt said, we work together to design and build the spaces in curie world..

ChadR: great, from peter pan, to the left, can i get everyone to state their name and afilliation foir the records

Peter Pan: Dan White, CTC

elijah: elijah wright, indiana university

Rich: Hi, I'm Richard ... a part-time language teacher and Caretaker of Showcase world

Trident: Mark Arnold Unite

"jitterbug": Alan Fersuson

hypatia: Bonnie DeVarco, University of California, VLearn3D and MediaTertia

"Guy Sunderland": Guy Sunderland - 3D designer and interface Designer (LEGO)

ChadR: Chad Rooney - UC, Santa Cruz and the CILT Project

tig: Roberto Cuccu, Liceo Scientifico Iglesias, Italy

ChadR: I would also like to remind everybody about our brand NEW questionnaire . . .

ChadR: you will need to review the study sheet and click HERE at the bottom of the page to go to the questionnaire. 

ChadR: http://stderr.org/~elw/building-blocks-questionnaire.html

ChadR: Next:

ChadR: World Design and Methods for Developing a Consistent / Cohesive Virtual

ChadR: Environment

ChadR: first a lil review of our proceedingsl

ChadR: i will be presenting several threads of discussion

ChadR: throughout the conversation, i will be mediating

ChadR: please feel free to use an ! or ? to enter the discussion

ChadR: and also to remember to use whisper for those personnal questions - that might move us off topic

ChadR: First up - 1) Pre-Production

ChadR: i think most production deparments would agree that . . .

ChadR: the amount of time spent in pre-production and planning is never wasted

ChadR: our first question is . . .

ChadR: What sort of preparations and planning (i.e. mapping, drawings, building

ChadR: descriptions) were done on your project prior to actual building?

ChadR: How did your World's Purpose and Audience influence it's design?

rembrandt: ! If I may take a stab at that one

ChadR: welcome guy sunderland

rembrandt: Target audience being teens in high school

ChadR: welcome all of our newcomers . . .

rembrandt: we are directly competing with high end gaming systems

rembrandt: on the other hand, we can't simply imitate those games

rembrandt: because we are trying to communicate advanced biological concepts

rembrandt: to a diverse audience in terms of abilities and ages

rembrandt: so, we tried to make a world design which would 1.) be innately interesting

rembrandt: encourgae orienteering and exploration, and at the same time be intuitive

rembrandt: guiding users to concepts in a way that makes sense

Peter Pan: dont forget pretty

rembrandt: and dang pretty

elijah: hehehe

rembrandt: so that it would be visually as "cool" as the science it teaches

rembrandt: and, the layout of the world was also designed such that it makes sense for their to be limits to the areas able to explored

rembrandt: we didnt want kids having to go to the ends of the earth to get to the information

rembrandt: or accidentally wnadring off in space

rembrandt: nor did we want to artificially contain them

rembrandt: so we went with an archepelago layout

rembrandt: islands are naturally limited spaces

rembrandt: thanks for listening

"Guy Sunderland": ! Hi all...I'm new here...I've worked on projects for Lego ('Creator') and an edutainment package called '3D Virtual Safari'...I agree with rembrandt, that a clear sinage semiotic is vital

"Guy Sunderland": Simple 3D symbolic navigation metaphors work best 4 me

"Guy Sunderland": Sometimes planning a single multi-functional nav object 

"Guy Sunderland": All I have to say at the moment..thanks

ChadR: i'm going to repeat the questions for the new comers

ChadR: What sort of preparations and planning (i.e. mapping, drawings, building

ChadR: descriptions) were done on your project prior to actual building?

rembrandt: I did a good deal of pencil on paper sketches

rembrandt: and maps that kept evolving

rembrandt: nothing revolutionary there

ChadR: i know in VUCSC we created extensive gridded maps of all building sityes prior to building

ChadR: with additional topo maps for elevations

rembrandt: we kept up a developement website to keep the team on the same page creatively speaking

"Guy Sunderland": Peter: No that was a UK release through a TV company....1996

ChadR: these greatly assisted our actual object designers

"Guy Sunderland": Peter: Built using Superscape VRT toolkit

hypatia: !comment to Chad's, in V-UCSC it was important to map since we were creating something from the real world... a replica

Rich: ! being a long time AW world builder - i actually made a miniature map version of my world on the world itself

ChadR: yes, an inworld map on the ground plane seemed to be most helpful at planning out space

"Guy Sunderland": Peter: Yes, the bricks and objects and characters are all exact copies of plastic LEGO objects

hypatia: !We mapped for chat protected areas in Linkworld, with the idea that many groups would simultaneously use various parts for tutoring sessions. That was a useful process because we started to see how many cat protected areas can be in a 1square K world

ChadR: any other comments on how How did

ChadR: your World's Purpose and Audience influence it's design?

tig: ! Focus seems more on building containers and less on designing spaces (i.e. what happens inside them or among them)

ChadR: yes, the paths and walls are all part of guiding the narrative of the user

"jitterbug": ! I have used aw itself for preplanning. As building is very fast, what i often do is use preexisting parts as standins for things what will be modeled later. 

"jitterbug": the system we setteled on was using geodesic spheres and walkways between them as a way to guide the users from area to area.

ChadR: any other comments on the preproduction process?

hypatia: ! yes

ChadR: go for it hypatia

hypatia: In many of my projects, we feel that ambience is an important feature to get students comfortable

hypatia: but am not so sure in looking back if it did make a strong difference

hypatia: For instance for students in desert areas to have a world that looked like the desert biomes

Rich: ! with regards to the ambience aspect i feel the constructive use of sound samples is undervalued

ChadR: !As in some instances it actually becomes a distraction from actual learning activities, important consideration

ChadR: ! i think it is all about knowing your audience and intended activities for the space before building

hypatia: !I agree, Rich, audio is really key

Rich: !yes and can be just as important as visual cues

ChadR: i think natural sounds really helped out in that case

Rich: The use of sound to direct students to different areas and put them in a condusive frame of mind for learning activities should be explored in greater depth

ChadR: custom work as opposed to canned mimdis available online

Rich: Yes, i have been experimenting with my own voice :)

tig: ! back to the island example: it might be interesting to create as a group a bare island, without much on it, and try to enrich it with different kinds of sensorial stimuli

ChadR: this all leads into one of our later QUESTIONS . . .

ChadR: How did you use supplemental objects (i.e. landscaping, signs), audio, and

ChadR: slide shows to enhance your world's environment?

ChadR: Any one . . .

Rich: ! Well seeing as my world (showcase) is being designed primarily to encourage new educators to the environment

ChadR: i think creative use of signs and slideshows would be interesting to hear about . . .

Rich: all these aspects will/ are being used to their greatest possible impact

hypatia: !slide shows are good to present animations, such as going from the cell to the DNA in our human genome exhibit

Rich: The use of bots for slideshows/presentations ... sound for interaction and guidance

hypatia: slide shows helped when we did not have enough room to show all paintings in the Getty gallery but I think audio could be a nice way to help students navigate around in a world

vetunimi: in cheemet slides and signs were meant to be easily accessible also to persons that are not confident with this browser or with computers generally

vetunimi: so i was very careful to build an environment to not get lost in it

Rich: ! The ability to focus students attention using the new ttargetted browser function of the create url command is also indispensable

Rich: (as i shall demonstrate later)

"jitterbug": ! we tried to use 3D rather than 2D as much as possible. We placed naritive material on the web, and it was easy to navigate with AW's internal web browser.

tig: ! Worlds are in a way like museums. They should allow different kinds of visitors to enjoy the resources. One might prefer to wander about, and experience the whole of it at first. Another might like to follow a guided tour.

ChadR: !yes . . . so how do we design our worlds to allow these diverse interactions?

hypatia: I think AW offers a lot of options and tools for audio, .wav based ambient sounds or narratives initiated by bump pans in wav files, midi for music, clickable realaudio also

hypatia: transparent objects and bots can provide an integration of tools via automation

hypatia: still clunky though, from my perspective. It would be easier if bots were integrated into the browser itself rather than as addons

ChadR: Are you all using these features in your worlds??

tig: Chad, as a user, I'd like to have a clear structured urbanisation and effective signs, but at the same time there should be room for ... Surprise! Discover!

Rich: ! I agree, although for now the creative use of signs and teleports to steer users towards areas that provide heightened levels of interaction are what i'm working on

Trident: ! I believe the diversity of the interaction come from the same place that most student learning orginates....a clear plan and objectives....that the student can share in the planning process is a strength of AW (Bloom's)

ChadR: I'd like to offer another QUESTION . . .

ChadR: How did you deal with creating the actual models, issues of scale, andwhat

ChadR: was your experience in developing the server support for your object set?

ChadR: Also 

ChadR: Did your initial plans change during implementation and the actual building process? 

Trident: ! In our projects we work first with planning at the site level (school) and then towards the development of a Student Leadership team that will help with on-site assistance/planning/and support with all groups involved

hypatia: How has that worked so far, Trident?

Trident: It is working well so far

martin grmuseum: hi all tried to stay here, but my connection is in disfunction... :-(

Trident: Plus it provides a test group to approach collabborative issues with on a smaller scale....we are working with some very sizable projects in terms of #s of participants.

hypatia: (to martin grmuseum) sorry you are having probs. Will post log after

martin grmuseum: ok thx

Rich: ! with regards to server side support i have recently come across an extremley interesting system that allows individual builders to upload objects to the path whilst working insude the AW environment

Trident: ?

Rich: This does away with conventional FTP user access and allows flexible object path management

tig: ? What system is that?

ChadR: from inworld?

Rich: yes from inworld

Trident: ?

hypatia: !Rich, that sounds like a great tool!

ChadR: yes trident . . .

Rich: http://www.ricta.net/ethaw/multipathins.html

Rich: the server requires SQL database and PHP4 support, but it looks extremely interesting

Trident: Is the purpose of these round tables to lead towards improvement of the browser or to fiquer out why/how to get people to use it in the educational setting ....both, one more than the other???

vetunimi: I have built a webpage that might be useful to answer this question

vetunimi: http://users.unimi.it/chemeet/vlearn/linky.html

ChadR: to share methods of development, improvements for all virtual world medium browsers, and of course their uses in educational settings

Trident: I mean, no sense spending a great deal of time improving an application if it still doesn't get used by educators.

hypatia: ! I would like to add to that. The goal of the roundtables is to learn from each other's successes and difficulties in order to help improve our own and new user experiences. 

ChadR: to create a dialogue and share our findings . . . to keep us from making the same discoveries over and over, everytime new people learn about the medium

vetunimi: educators do not make use of things they are not aware of..

hypatia: I wonder if we could ask a pedagogical question in response to that, Trident

hypatia: Bloom's Taxonomy has come up a bit already, 

hypatia: what are some of the most useful education theories that help the design process for virtual worlds?

martin grmuseum: constructionism

tig: Or, what sort of student is probably most involved in an Active World?

Trident: sure

hypatia: Howard Gardner's Theory of Multiple Intelligences is also useful as is constructivist and problem-based learning approaches. How do folks directly use them in the design proces or do you?

martin grmuseum: for educational theories go also to uva2 > outside the Plato cave!

vetunimi: I do not work myself in the educatinal field so before completing the project I made a questionaire for students what was needed

vetunimi: to see what was needed...

vetunimi: I guess the best student of the course were always here and made use also of this opportunity they had

Trident: If that is the goal Chad why not form a partnership of sorts that would support what are doing?

tig: As far as Multiple Intelligences I've published something at http://web.tiscali.it/3dfantasia/1issue/i_multiple.htm

tig: It's a role game in a maze, topic: cinema

tig: vetunimi - "the best students" ... what about the less proficient ones

Trident: of course the ability to "create knowledge and learning" from a first hand perspective plays into many forms of constructivist theory.

vetunimi: they jumped the opportunity

ChadR: these roundtables are forming that partnership - a comunity of developers, meeting, emailing, and posting back and forth

Trident: If John Dewey had a computer...he would likely have invented AW

hypatia: Perhaps Maria Montessori would have as well :-)

ChadR: i have another question for you all . . .

elijah: :)

ChadR: assuming that you had made plans regarding what you wanted to build in world . . .

ChadR: Did your initial plans change during implementation and the actual building process?

Trident: I mean an effective partnership that has a plan for implimenting 3d vr technology as a viable learning tool.

"Robert": present ;-) hi all

ChadR: either because they were too complex, tech limits, etc . . .

vetunimi: yes i made a draft for the world chemeet and the future devolopement was based on students needs

Trident: ! I have one other point that has repeadly come up as I have presented AWEDU to school districts and educational agencies.

hypatia: I like your questionnaire approach, Vetunimi, especially as it guides the design evolution

Rich: ! Yes, constant redesign and restructuring have been fundemental in creating a smooth transition of the environment

vetunimi: yes it guides all the things I do, the purpose was to have an interactive environment also concerning its own evolution

Trident: Our students determine the nature of projects, based on an overview of learning objects that are subject specific.

vetunimi: so sometimes I maybe had an idea and build something that I had to modify later on

martin grmuseum: ChadR we planned an imitation of our IRL building GrMuseum as metaphore for clear navigation, and so we did

Trident: ! We also work with schools to develop collaborations that meet their specific educational goals.

vetunimi: the problem tig just mentioned is interesting, this isn't compulsory but experimental, so how to gain the interest of the less bright students

martin grmuseum: UvA 1 2 and 3 were growing more organic

martin grmuseum: at the UvA worlds the group interaction in real live was more important

elijah: heh.

martin grmuseum: to build in cyberspace needs very efficient social communication IRL

tig: back to Learning Styles, worlds should be Visually, Auditorily and Kinestetically stimulating

tig: and also offer a possibility of socialising (one of Howard's intelligences)

martin grmuseum: voice-chat would be great like in blaxxun

ChadR: I guess finally i have one more question for you all . . .

ChadR: How did your studentS REACTIONS AND YOUR INITIAL BUILDING EXperience alter the way you

ChadR: think about designing future virtual environments?

ChadR: what renewed interests and lessons should we take with us . . . nito new worlds and browsers?

Rich: ! After looking at the mess, decided never to let students in again :)

"jitterbug": hehe.

ChadR: if we were to start building a new world today, all of us together . . .

ChadR: your advice would be . .

elijah: while we're talking about kinaesthesia..... it probably needs to be emphasized that the *scaling* of things in the world is very important to students.... i know this doesn't fit with our current conversation very well, but its something that

elijah: i periodically notice

ChadR: should we go around the table?

ChadR: yes elijah . . 

ChadR: 1) so scale . . .

hypatia: I agree with Elijah about scale. We notice that things need to be scaled up about 3 to one to help avatars get through doorways and specifically when arranging content in a room, it helps to be cylindrical for more items to show at once.

ChadR: yes, this repeatedly comes up . . .
"Robert": my students were exited and were motivated to continue, due to accessproblems of our firewalled network we were unable to continue alas

tig: About the future, I'd like to design as a team of experts. Sharing experiences and skills. 

elijah: what tends to stick out, if the scale isn't right, is that things tend to look a little surreal. from where i'm standing right now, looking to the southwest, the distant terrain looks a little off.

hypatia: Robert, I thought that the firewall problem was aleviated with the lastest version of the browser?

ChadR: it would be nice to come up with a uniform scale, accross all worlds for consistancy

Rich: ! Direct student input from the start with regards to layout, content and object design

elijah: i'm sure that's less of a problem if your world isn't reality-focused

ChadR: excellant . . .

ChadR: i agree, most important to KNOW what is your audience and needs of that community from the start

elijah: *audience analysis*, in big stars and lights =)

ChadR: trident . . .

ChadR: any advice for the crowd :)

martin grmuseum: it seems that everybody is whispering?!

Rich: and everyone suddenly looks up with guilty looks on their faces :)

vetunimi: I am not

hypatia: I think it is important to note that one of the reasons for the Design Principles Database project that this VLearn one is a smaller part of

martin grmuseum: hihi

"Robert": me neither

"Robert": hahaha

hypatia: Is that even the WWW integrated into the classroom curriculum is very new and we are learning a lot fast

hypatia: there was a distinct lack of clear understanding of 3D

hypatia: since that was even newer... desktop 3d, that is

"Guy Sunderland": ! Just a comment from a Newbie outsider... there is far too much empty, dead, un-interactive space in most of the Activeworlds worlds I've seen... why is this ?

ChadR: And still is . . .

hypatia: and then multi-user 3D that combines social space with simulation was another brand new arena, in which we are all pioneers

vetunimi: what do you mean hypatia?

tig: for Guy - Time is required for filling in a world and make it interactive - lots of time

vetunimi: I didn't experience lack of clear understanding, but lack of interest

hypatia: When folks wonder why there are so few people in multi-user 3D we can take a look at the large bulk of teachers... what percentage of teachers actually now effectively use even the web in their classes? 

hypatia: Also how many teachers use MUDS and MOOS?

martin grmuseum: this eduverse is more used on a kind of event base like now

vetunimi: I think because it requires computer skills

Trident: Sorry I was talking with my students :-)

tig: Why limit ourselves to classes? Learning can happen also outside them.

"Guy Sunderland": Tig: I know, I've been designing them professionally since 1995. I don't think it is a time issue, but a condensation of space issue...no great un-used expanses

martin grmuseum: we have not found any better alternative...0-)

hypatia: This thread is important because, I think community development and human infrastructure is critical in multi-user spaces. We will be tackling that topic in the Roundtable on October 16th.

martin grmuseum: I must go now... hope to meat you all next time..! 

Rich: Bye martin

hypatia: Great to have you join us again, Martin, bye

elijah: bye martin

tig: bye

"Guy Sunderland": Bye Martin

martin grmuseum: it was again very intresting... bye

Trident: We have great interest here in using AWEDU....more than I can handle...I have 9 ISDs that want to participate on a district wide basis. The problem is we have refused to support them due to lack of adequate support capabilities.

hypatia: What support capabilities are you referring to exactly, trident?

Trident: If this is an issue for another time I will wait.

Rich: Which is something that i intend to address, the ability to provide support and training to teachers and students looking to participate here

Trident: Well, Rich and I and a small group of others have been developing a support structure that will enable schools to effectly utilize AWEDU....

hypatia: I agree Rich ... support includes funds for technology, human infrastructure and training. I often find schools don't have enough full commitment to create a sustainable model for that in these environs because they are still considered to innovative

hypatia: Do you find that?

Rich: yes.... my primary goal is to make the AWEDU a full time occupation.... resources and funding need to be located to make this a viable educational tool

Trident: We are running test projects this year with the hope of showing that the support is the tipping point factor in moving AWEDU into an effective educational resource

Rich: on more than just an 'event' basis

"Guy Sunderland": ! Is anyone using AWEDU in UK schools ?

"tony": jajaja

hypatia: Some folks are, Guy

Rich: yes a few i believe

"Guy Sunderland": < would like to know who :)

Rich: but many more by the time i've finished with them :)

Trident: We are working on major funding initiatives to support the major number of schools we have presented to and have been asked to begin use of AWEDU with.

hypatia: You might want to look here Guy... http://edu.activeworlds.com/participants/index.html

"Guy Sunderland": Thankyou Hypa...

hypatia: sure :-)

Trident: All the schools we meet with already feel there is a huge wealth of educaional opportunity from the existing browser capabilities.

Rich: yes, AWEDU is educations best kept secret

Trident: They just haven't been introduced to, or supported in the use of them.

"Guy Sunderland": Hmmm secret... anyone talked to games co's about making this high street shelf software 

"Guy Sunderland": ?

ChadR: jUST TO LET YOU ALL KNOW . . . there will be a round table on this very subject, just addded OCT 9TH

tig: One way to have schools visit AWEDU is to create educational games to be played within the worlds

Rich: already something like that in hand Guy :)

elijah: ;) thanks chad

"Guy Sunderland": Rich: cool...global release ?

ChadR: on funding and multi-institutional challenges

Rich: more news soon hopefully

"Robert": thanks all

ChadR: I'D ALSO LIKE to remind you that these chat sessions will be logged on our site at:

ChadR: http://vw.indiana.edu/building-blocks/roundtables

hypatia: linked also to the sign to the left of the building blocks poster in here...

ChadR: before you leave I'd like to thank everyone in attendance

ChadR: and both mention

hypatia: Thank you Chad for a stimulating session!

ChadR: mention our questionnaire . . .and

ChadR: a very short DEMO by rich